HANNAH BATES: Welcome to HBR on Management, case research and conversations with the world’s high enterprise and administration consultants, hand-selected that will help you unlock the most effective in these round you.
Making enterprise choices typically means selecting one path over one other. However that doesn’t all the time should be the case. Wendy Smith and Marianne Lewis argue that leaders ought to transfer past “both/or” selections – to give you options that embrace ambiguity and paradox.
Smith is a administration professor on the College of Delaware, and Lewis is dean of the College of Cincinnati Lindner Faculty of Enterprise. Collectively they’re co-authors of the guide Each/And Pondering: Embracing Artistic Tensions to Clear up Your Hardest Issues.
On this episode, you’ll learn to reframe the query you’re asking so as to get extra inventive solutions. You’ll additionally learn to shift your individual inside pondering away from oppositional relationships and as a substitute give attention to interdependencies.
This episode initially aired on HBR IdeaCast in August 2022. Right here it’s.
CURT NICKISCH: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Enterprise Overview. I’m Curt Nickisch.
For a lot of within the enterprise world trade-offs and technique go hand in hand. It’s all about deciding how one can differentiate your self after which implementing that plan with a laser-like focus. Which means making some powerful calls and exhausting trade-offs that by saying sure to 1 factor, we’ve got to say no to one thing else.
Now that has typically confirmed to be a profitable and worthwhile technique. However at present’s company say that selecting between totally different paths could imply that individuals miss some hidden potentialities. They are saying that we should always take into consideration issues extra holistically and that as a substitute of pondering both/or, we should always change our mindset to extra of a each/and method.
To speak about what which means for people and corporations, we’re joined now by Wendy Smith, a professor of administration on the College of Delaware, and Marianne Lewis, professor of administration and Dean of the Lindner Faculty of Enterprise on the College of Cincinnati.
Collectively they wrote the brand new guide, Each/And Pondering: Embracing Artistic Tensions to Clear up Your Hardest Issues. Wendy, thanks for approaching the present to speak about this.
WENDY SMITH: Thanks Curt. Good to be right here.
CURT NICKISCH: And Marianne, thanks too.
MARIANNE LEWIS: Oh, it’s such a pleasure. Thanks.
CURT NICKISCH: Nicely, let’s begin with a bit extra about this problem, proper? Why some individuals discover that nuance exhausting and like to only make an both/or resolution. Why is that so tempting, I suppose, in a enterprise setting?
WENDY SMITH: We’re wired to consider the both/or. After we’re confronted with a call that feels actually unsure, it creates anxiousness. We wish to scale back that anxiousness and the way in which to do it’s to make a transparent resolution. And as psychology and analysis has proven us time and again, we wish to be in step with these choices.
And so we’re wired for both/or pondering which certainly will be useful generally, however misses the larger image of doable creativity and broader and extra sustainable options if we get into each/and pondering. Each/and pondering is taking a look at competing concepts and earlier than making choices, earlier than developing with broader options, doing a deeper dive to grasp either side, after which determine how these two sides are synergistic, the place the wholism is, the place there’s integration between them earlier than we decide, get sucked down one aspect and miss a complete different aspect.
So, efficient organizations must each take into consideration what they’re doing at present, their current world, how they’re managing operationally and effectively, and they should innovate and check out one thing new and take into consideration change for tomorrow. And if the group goes to achieve success, they should do each. They will’t simply give attention to at present or give attention to tomorrow. Be actually good at their execution or be actually good at their innovation and analysis and improvement. They’ve to have the ability to do each.
CURT NICKISCH: Marianne, particularly now, within the context of the pandemic the place numerous organizations are form of combating their method by the uncertainty of the pandemic, leaders perhaps have turn out to be extra conscious of needing to cope with paradox, proper? And/or balancing tensions. How do you suppose that’s modified this in any other case very, how do you suppose that’s modified the pondering of commerce offs versus each/and?
MARIANNE LEWIS: One of many issues that Wendy and I’ve seen in our analysis, and it’s been occurring for over 20 years now, is that there are three components that appear to accentuate our expertise of tensions. And that’s change, plurality and shortage.
CURT NICKISCH: We sort of had all these within the pandemic.
MARIANNE LEWIS: Yeah, it was the proper storm of all three. What we discover with these tensions, this tug of battle that you simply really feel in these actually difficult choices, they’re a double edged sword, proper? On the one hand that form of friction opens up all kinds of potentialities. I imply, it could actually get your thoughts going. It might get your adrenaline working. As you stated, you possibly can actually begin to dig in and it may be actually paralyzing. It may be anxiousness upsetting. There generally is a host of issues occurring each in our thoughts, but in addition in our feelings that maintain us targeted on what we’ve been doing up to now. It might truly drive us to accentuate our present actions fairly than change. Or the opposite method we see fairly a bit, which I feel you stated as properly, it could actually trigger us to be paralyzed and so overanalyze to the purpose that we don’t make a name.
CURT NICKISCH: So, if you’re feeling this, do you have to be afraid of it?
MARIANNE LEWIS: No, if you’re feeling these tensions, you really do really feel it proper in your intestine. We all know what that’s like. In truth, one of many issues that we discovered by so lots of our research is that paradoxical thinkers are those who actually suppose within the each/and, discover consolation within the discomfort.
One of many leaders we discuss fairly a bit within the guide is Paul Polman, who I’ve been learning for fairly a while. When he was main Unilever he had such a paradoxical technique within the Unilever sustainable dwelling plan. And when he can be given concepts, options to issues and so they felt actually minimize and dry, he’d instantly cease and say, return and discover extra. Return and discover the opposites. Really feel the strain, really feel the discomfort after which let’s speak. As a result of if not, we in all probability haven’t pushed far sufficient.
CURT NICKISCH: There was a quote in your guide that actually grabbed me, the issue shouldn’t be the issue. The issue is how we take into consideration the issue.
MARIANNE LEWIS: We use that a lot and it actually does cease us. And we discovered that within the work we are able to use it to have actually helpful discussions with leaders to say, how have you ever framed the problem? As a result of issues are messy. We put the boundaries round them. And as quickly as you’ve put the boundaries round them, you’ve set limitations in what the options could be. So actually questioning that framing is a primary step.
WENDY SMITH: Once more, it’s not, we discuss altering the query as the way in which into each/and pondering. We give it some thought like when individuals wish to study to meditate, a lifelong observe to study. And the way in which into that’s respiration, is taking the primary breath and focusing in your breath. We take into consideration altering the query because the entree into each/and pondering by shifting up the way in which that we’re framing, the way in which that we perceive our issues.
CURT NICKISCH: Marianne, are you able to consider like how altering the query actually kickstarted a distinct sort of dialog?
MARIANNE LEWIS: Nicely, I’ll offer you an instance that we’re seeing fairly a bit now and is the query of hybrid work. And what’s the right combination of dwelling and distant?
CURT NICKISCH: It’s each/and proper?
MARIANNE LEWIS: It’s each/and, however the problem of it, which I like that’s instantly the place you’re at. What we’re discovering, and I’m curious the place you’re seeing it as properly, is that it’s not the most effective of each worlds. In truth, it’s generally fairly often the worst of each worlds. Is that individuals are once they do come into the workplace for his or her in-person days, they discover that they’re in a ghost city, they discover that they’re in all distant conferences. They’ve simply navigated a commute and so they’re pondering, why am I right here? Proper?
However likewise, they’re discovering that at dwelling, they’re dropping connections to individuals. They’ve misplaced the flexibility to learn physique language and to know individuals properly sufficient to grasp the nuances of that, it’s simply been too lengthy. And on the identical time, the traces which have been so blurred between say household or life and work that truly work begins to take over the whole lot for instance. Proper? And burnout occurs to your highest performers.
So, the instance of how do you’re employed by each/and, sure, individuals are asking what’s the right combination? Nicely, so far we’d say actually dive in and take into consideration what do you worth most from the alternatives to be within the workplace? And what are the restrictions? And do the very same factor on the house web site. What do you treasure for the chance to have the deep work sort of alternative house at dwelling and what are its limits? And the way do you place these collectively to say for us, and even higher for each for the group and for a person, what’s the appropriate mix? Now we’ve opened so many choices this doesn’t turn out to be such a minimize and dry query. It turns into nuanced. What’s the tradition of the group, the technique? And what’s the character of our proficient workforce? And the way will we determine that mix?
CURT NICKISCH: Wendy, within the guide you two additionally wrote about how each/and pondering might help break vicious cycles. Inform us extra about that.
WENDY SMITH: Yeah. So, what we discover is that this both/or pondering leads us right into a vicious cycle and form of this downward spiral the place, as Marianne was saying earlier than, it’s the worst of each worlds, not the most effective.
CURT NICKISCH: And so, you’re by no means actually developing with an answer basically. Is that what results in a vicious cycle? You’re form of, I don’t know, we have to do extra mission-oriented stuff. Or no we’ve been doing an excessive amount of of that now again to revenue driving ventures or I don’t know.
WENDY SMITH: Proper. Precisely. It begins with what we discuss is intensification or getting caught on one aspect. We discuss as like falling down a rabbit gap. So, we’re actually targeted on, for those who discuss a social enterprise or socially accountable, as a result of we’re actually targeted on the mission oriented stuff. And we get so targeted on that till we understand that we’ve acquired issues as a result of we’re not making our numbers and we’re not financially sustainable. However we’re so caught within the inertia of that one aspect, it’s exhausting to shift and transfer. So, we discuss that as being in as intensification.
However then, after we understand that we do not make our numbers, abruptly we fully shift to the alternative aspect. We discuss this as over-correcting. And the picture that we generally use is a wrecking ball the place you’ve form of lifted up and form of killed all the helpful stuff that goes together with the detrimental. And so now you’ve shifted fully to focus on this case, for instance, in your monetary aspect, that you simply’ve misplaced your mission. And so, you’re over-correcting, going forwards and backwards between the 2, and the third half that’s problematic is that what you find yourself doing is having two teams of individuals every caught in their very own aspect and simply taking pictures out in opposition to each other.
CURT NICKISCH: We’re those who make the cash right here.
WENDY SMITH: Precisely. Proper. And so, there’s your polarization. So, as a substitute of the entire group shifting from one to a different over-correcting, you then’re caught in polarization. As a substitute of actually form of being in dialog with each other and developing with a greater place. And so, we see this on a regular basis in organizations the place for those who’re speaking about sustainability points, you’ve acquired your sustainability officer and your finance individuals combating with each other. Or if we’re speaking about innovation, you’ve acquired your R&D individuals combating together with your finance individuals, fairly than either side listening to and valuing what every has to supply and being in dialog to give you a greater and extra inventive answer.
CURT NICKISCH: You’ve achieved numerous work with organizations, however you’ve additionally utilized this to people. Are you able to inform how, pondering of issues as a each/and downside or attempting to reframe the query, might help you in one thing that you simply’re combating simply your self?
WENDY SMITH: Nicely, I typically inform the story, or tales if you’ll, of what it’s wish to guardian and companion. My husband and I typically carry two very totally different views to the desk round parenting. And so, we’ve got actually comparable values-
CURT NICKISCH: You’re smiling when you say this?
WENDY SMITH: I do. We do, we’ve got very comparable values and but we regularly take totally different approaches to get to these values. And what we’ve got realized over time is how one can pause and pay attention to 1 one other and have the ability to worth what every brings fairly than simply be within the ongoing battle of I’m proper, no I’m proper. And that has led us to some extra inventive options. Whether or not it’s round how will we take into consideration self-discipline for chores, or how will we take into consideration self-discipline for display screen time. Or no matter different choices, ongoing day by day choices come up. He’s acquired unimaginable methods to consider issues that I don’t know that I all the time valued and appreciated. And taking our personal medication I’ve to step again and say, okay, how can I take heed to him, hear what he has to say and find a way to consider different options earlier than we make a decision.
MARIANNE LEWIS: I feel one of many ways in which we see this on the particular person stage is with management and was with the tensions you’re feeling as a frontrunner. We are able to really feel like, for instance, compassion and competency can really feel like they’re at odds. We’ve all felt that, I do know I’ve felt that in my very own management.
However as a substitute of pondering this can be a commerce off, properly, I’ve to be powerful so I can’t be compassionate. This goes again to a time period we’ve heard since we have been all youngsters of powerful love. No, they work completely synergistically. And we’d take into consideration what’s the energy of compassion to construct belief, to higher perceive people, to work by challenges, creating secure and inspiring environments. And on the identical time, how will we ensure we’ve got the rigor and self-discipline of targets the place we’re holding the bar for top efficiency and acknowledge it as it’s. After which how do these items come collectively?
And it’s not going to shock you they arrive collectively fantastically as a result of these sort of environments are precisely the place individuals wish to work who actually do need excellence for themselves, their group, their groups. They usually wish to be, we spend numerous time in our work, we wish to be in a spot the place we like one another, we assist one another. We really feel that there’s some care occurring. In order that’s only one instance, however that’s extra the chief saying to herself/himself, what am I attempting to place ahead? What am I actually attempting to faucet into of my very own strengths and my wants, in addition to these round me. And I feel that performs out in our model.
We dwell in tensions on daily basis as leaders. And I feel speaking to nice leaders, actually listening to how they’re working by it, is fascinating. As a result of they don’t see them as trade-offs. They know that they’ve acquired to do each. The query is how. And that’s once more, a nuanced and actually a dynamic resolution making.
WENDY SMITH: The concept of navigating paradoxes is first that we get past these two concepts is first that we get past these two concepts as opposing. And we take into consideration the interdependencies. The subsequent piece is considering how one aspect informs and permits the opposite. Specializing in ourself, specializing in others. The extra that we give attention to others, the extra assets that we’ve got to have the ability to give attention to ourselves. The extra that we give attention to ourselves and what we’d like, the extra that we create the vitality to give attention to others.
Or if we take into consideration compassion and competence, the extra competent we’re, the extra that we’ve got the arrogance to be compassionate. The extra compassionate that we’re, the extra that we create the alternatives for our competence. Or in management, the extra susceptible we’re, the simpler we will be. The simpler we’re, the extra that we’ve got the arrogance to be susceptible. So, this stuff outline one another. They result in each other.
CURT NICKISCH: I’m curious if it’s simpler if you wish to get began with adopting a each/and method, is it simpler to do in your individual life as a result of it’s sort of current and apparent to you? Or is it simpler to do in your work life as a result of the whole lot’s slightly bit extra at a distance and it’s perhaps a greater beginning place.
WENDY SMITH: I imply, Curt, it’s knowledgeable hazard, however I might take that both/or query and switch it round and ask-
CURT NICKISCH: Why not each?
WENDY SMITH: How can doing this in your private life allow your work and management and the way can doing this in your… I feel I might ask that query.
CURT NICKISCH: Simply begin enthusiastic about issues in another way, for those who can.
MARIANNE LEWIS: Now I’ll say, suppose we’ve each discovered that beginning at a private stage, simply to consider your individual dilemmas, will get your thoughts working about what’s the feeling, proper? Get your enthusiastic about, I can really feel the tug of battle. Then typically what we do we are saying, now pause on that, after which we’ll shift. And we’ll oftentimes shift to a 3rd celebration. As a result of in some methods, step one to essentially perceive how this works, it really works greatest for those who put one thing on the market that’s impartial. As a result of these problems with navigating paradoxes take your head and your coronary heart and so they’re difficult.
And so, for those who take one thing that you simply don’t have a horse within the race, you’ll be able to watch individuals and fairly shortly determine, oh yeah. After which stroll by, change the query, let’s separate and join. Let’s take into consideration how we’re going to construct some balancing and dynamics over time after which we come again to their particular person questions. And even higher, we are able to come again and say let’s put a extremely difficult organizational or staff query on the desk and work by it collectively. However I feel we’ve discovered that third one, let’s get collectively round a desk to work by, truly advantages most after we’ve considered it neutrally and considered it personally.
WENDY SMITH: It’s the case that after we try to educate these concepts to leaders and organizations, they really feel their very own tensions most poignantly, however can’t see their each/and potentialities as simply as they will see the probabilities for each/and once they don’t really feel the tensions as intensely. So, the objective is to assist individuals really feel their very own tensions after which have the ability to apply that each/and pondering to their very own state of affairs. However it’s true, it helps to begin with taking a look at each/and approaches for different individuals’s conditions, as a result of these are the moments the place we are able to see it higher after we’re not emotionally engaged.
CURT NICKISCH: What are a few of your favourite ways in which individuals in organizations present their willingness to do that? What are a few of your favourite form of phrases or questions or issues you’ll be able to say. You talked about Paul Polman earlier. What would you wish to have stated and heard extra typically in a gathering on the workplace or amongst colleagues?
WENDY SMITH: A number of the leaders that I’ve spoken to have been in a position to talk each/and pondering to their organizations by numerous actually inventive approaches. And oftentimes it comes with tales or metaphors or different methods so that individuals can perceive it on the stage that they’re most in a position to have interaction. And so, one of many leaders that we discuss within the guide, and that I’ve labored with carefully, is Terri Kelly, who’s the CEO of WL Gore and Associates. Gore was an organization that was very a lot targeted on small groups and dealing in small groups and she or he wanted to assist them develop an enterprise-wide world construction. So, they have been speaking about each being world and native, and they might use the metaphor of inhaling and respiration out. It’s important to do each. We are able to’t select between them. So, let’s determine how one can breathe in and breathe out.
One other chief that I’ve studied and that has actually, very considerate about paradoxes and each/and is Zita Cobb. She was dwelling on Fogo Island, Newfoundland, and she or he created the Fogo Island Inn, which is an inn so as to assist redevelop the neighborhood of Newfoundland, of Fogo Island in Newfoundland.
It was very a lot about how do you assist modernize this dying neighborhood whereas holding deeply to their traditions and their cultures? Convey collectively the brand new and the outdated, the social and the monetary. And the way do you create native communities linked to our world world? So that they use the picture of a cauliflower. And the picture is that we’re all linked on the earth by this actually robust stem, the stronger the stem is the simpler the florets are, however all of us dwell in these distinctive, distinct florets. So, take into consideration, they discuss cauliflower pondering to consider the connection between world and native. And so, we’ve seen of leaders use very inventive language to successfully talk these concepts.
CURT NICKISCH: Marianne, did you might have something so as to add there?
MARIANNE LEWIS: Nicely, I feel communication is a key problem and alternative for leaders round each/and pondering. I imply, Paul Polman and others have stated the identical factor. One of many challenges, if you’re utilizing each/and pondering, is individuals like their leaders to be decisive and clear and constant. So, you’ll be able to come off as being, wait a minute is he waffling? Is he uncertain? Or is he sending blended messages? And so, Paul would generally say, I’ve to be crystal clear, we’re doing each. Now we have to verify the social and the monetary are working collectively. And at present I’m involved about our numbers, and we’re going to do a deep dive into the funds. However tomorrow we’ll shift gears.
So, the purpose being, how do you truly handle this on an ongoing foundation? We name this being constantly inconsistent. This particular sort of tight rope strolling between two approaches or a number of approaches. And it’s extra a few sequence of micro shifts between opposing views. So, a good rope walker is sort of retaining her or his eyes on the long run, progressing and attempting to not veer too far left or proper as they’re shifting ahead. It’s a extremely dynamic method and you may see it within the communications.
CURT NICKISCH: What different issues can leaders do to create this atmosphere the place individuals embrace the uncertainty, acknowledge the strain and in addition attempt to work by it fairly than going to 1 aspect or the opposite of it?
MARIANNE LEWIS: We talked about being constantly inconsistent or this notion of tight rope strolling. I feel it’s essential to emphasize that the opposite method, the truth is, the one that individuals, I feel usually envision once they hear each/and pondering, is that of win-wins, or inventive integrations. We use the metaphor of a mule, proper? Stronger than a horse, smarter than a donkey. And that form of hybrid is essential. It’s actually about bringing collectively the most effective of each worlds, as we stated earlier than. And it’s uncommon. It’s extra uncommon than you’ll suppose to have these aha moments.
We discuss sensible minds like Einstein, proper? Who was enthusiastic about quantum physics as a result of he was asking the query, how can one thing be each in movement and at relaxation concurrently? This was the start of quantum physics and a lot extra to come back. However that was a basic mule. More likely is our persevering with dynamic balancing of this constant and consistency. So I might make that notice as a result of I do suppose there’s some misconceptions that each/and pondering is that this lovely inventive integration. They usually simply, they’re a bit uncommon. And that’s okay. As a result of they will’t occur by the balancing truly.
CURT NICKISCH: Marianne and Wendy, what do you suppose the most important false impression about, what’s the greatest false impression about each/and pondering that’s on the market that you simply’d wish to clear up?
MARIANNE LEWIS: I feel one of many misconceptions is that it’s apparent and it’s straightforward. We’ve had individuals say to us once they see the title of the guide, properly, duh, proper? Isn’t this what you do? You look, as you stated, for the most effective of each worlds? Nicely, if it was apparent and straightforward, it could occur on a regular basis. It’s not the norm. Our norm is to essentially take into consideration how will we cut up issues aside, do the basic strategy to execs and cons, decide to maneuver. And we have a tendency to do this in methods that may reinforce that our choices A or B, have a tendency to remain fairly carefully on the identical sides as we’ve achieved earlier than, as a result of we’ve got this reinforcing cycle. And understanding that, actually understanding that perhaps it’s not as straightforward because it seems, helps us do what Wendy stated earlier, take the breath, proper? Step backwards and actually suppose, how do I body this query? Am I separating and connecting? Is there some dynamic right here at play that I might use extra to my benefit?
WENDY SMITH: I might additionally add that one of many issues that we hear loads about as properly, isn’t there actual worth in combating on your aspect, as a result of that’s the way you get to a greater answer? And positively in terms of politics and political polarization, we’re not seeing that at present. And actually, one of many issues that we hope with these concepts is that we are able to get them into the arms of individuals to essentially navigate a number of the large challenges that we’ve got on the earth. Not by combating in opposition to each other, however actually by listening to and valuing totally different views and discovering higher options. So, I feel one of many misconceptions is that we get to higher options by combating for our aspect higher. And I feel we discover that’s not true.
CURT NICKISCH: I additionally simply considered that quote: if you see a fork within the street, take it.
MARIANNE LEWIS: Take it.
WENDY SMITH: Take it.
MARIANNE LEWIS: I find it irresistible.
CURT NICKISCH: That sums it up in some methods too. Nicely, Wendy and Marianne, this has been actually nice. Thanks a lot for sharing your work with us.
WENDY SMITH: Thanks for having us.
MARIANNE LEWIS: Thanks.
HANNAH BATES: You simply heard Wendy Smith and Marianne Lewis in dialog with Curt Nickisch on the HBR IdeaCast. They’re administration researchers and the authors of the guide Each/And Pondering: Embracing Artistic Tensions to Clear up Your Hardest Issues.
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This episode was produced by Mary Dooe, Anne Saini, and me, Hannah Bates. Ian Fox is our editor. Music by Coma Media. Particular because of Rob Eckhardt, Maureen Hoch, Erica Truxler, Ramsey Khabbaz, Nicole Smith, Anne Bartholomew, and also you – our listener. See you subsequent week.